How do we handle it?
The engine awarded six points for a defense TD to the NO DST, but the defense has not been on the field in that situation...
do we award Meachem with the TD?
de we reduce the score of the NO DST?
I have no idea how to handle this situation, any suggestions?
I suggest like Michael Fabiano wrote in his blog:
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Since Meachem was a defender at the point of the strip (offense becomes defense after a turnover), the Saints defense should be rewarded for a forced fumble (where applicable), a recovered fumble and a touchdown.
...
Source:
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/fantasy/
Fabiano also said:
Zitat:If you're in a league where players are rewarded for all of their efforts on the field, though, Meachem should also be given the points for those three categories.
In my opinion Meachem deserves the points...he took the snap as an offensive player, stripped the returner of the ball, and scored a touchdown. Statistically (as tracked by NFL.com boxscore) he received a fumble recovery TD, thus no offensive stats.
This is yet another example of how an offensive player can produce a large sum of points that are not awarded to him as an individual...so to me the points go to the 'defense' AND the individual, just like I think a KR TD should. As Fabiano alluded to, I believe players should be rewarded for all of their efforts on the field, if our system has a point scale for such an action.
According to the stats it was scored correctly, but in my opinion an adjustment should be made:
Meachem +6 pts for the TD (at least, perhaps scored like a 44yd rushing TD)
NO D/ST +0 pts (no adjustment)
Good Tuesday to you folks, the Robert Meachem fumble recovery TD was an OFFENSIVE fumble recovery for a touchdown. So there is no reason to be treated as a defensive touchdown for purposes of team defense. I share Chris opinion... :dafür:
In my opinion the NO offense became defense while WAS intercepted the pass. the points goes to NO defense, there is no rule, wich players are on field for the defensive team. In this case it doesn't matter for the Lichtenberg Cowboys, because they have both: Meachem and NO-DEF and 6 points more are not enough to win the game. My proposal: we do nothing for this game but we must discuss any adjustments for the next season.
this decision could have an impact for the playofforder as 3 teams have the same record and 1-1 on tie breaker. So how is it treated right now in the engine? I assume it is treated as a Defense TD right?
Here is something to read from the footballgyus:
Hi Folks,
Good Monday to you. The Robert Meachem play is obviously the hot topic among commissioners this morning as they work out how to score it.
I asked my friend Bill Davies to give us his opinion. Bill thinks more about commish stuff than any human I know. He put a lot of thought into this back when it was an issue with Keenan McCardell and I very much respect his opinion.
I asked him this morning to put something together for me and he did. I am very comfortable with his ruling here.
Thanks Bill.
J
******************
Joe Bryant
Owner - Footballguys.com
TRANSCRIPT FROM TODAY’S EMERGENCY HEARING ON THE
ROBERT MEACHEM FUMBLE RECOVERY TD
December 7, 2009
BAILIFF
“All rise. Court is in session. The Dishonorable Chief Injustice Bill Davies presiding.”
CHIEF INJUSTICE BILL DAVIES
Please be seated.
December 7th is a day that will go down in infamy.
(What’s that? Already taken? Dang it! OK, I’ll play it straight then.)
For those of you who don’t know me, I am FootballGuy’s answer to my real life neighbor, Honorable David S. Doty. Judge Doty, you may know, is the presiding U.S. District Court Judge on matters regarding the NFL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. While that may impress you, he walks in my shadow on all things fantasy football.
As a sitting Injustice for over a decade, I have seen a lot of things in my day. Every once in a while, you meet someone in court who is a product of the system. When they leave the courtroom after you have delivered their sentence, you think to yourself, “I’ll know I’ll see you again.” That happened yesterday in the Saints – Redskins game.
In this case, our subject is ROBERT MEACHEM’S FUMBLE RECOVERY FOR A TD. For those of you new to town, you might think this is a pretty special and unique situation. However, this situation has walked through this courtroom before – in 2003, when I was a Junior Judge. It was disguised then as the “KEENAN McCARDELL TD”. On that day, I thought we were facing an unprecedented matter, but found out later that this situation was in a prior Court as a result of a 1997 Week 11 TD by Kansas City Chief WR Danan Hughes. It likely occurred before then, too, but records are not readily available prior to 1997.
In the 2003 matter of the KEENAN McCARDELL, this Court issued a rather lengthy and complete decision:
http://apps.footballguys.com/04davies_mccardelltd.cfm
. It resulted in much discussion on message boards, in bar rooms and amongst friends. It was supported and ridiculed. But at the end of the day, it was ground in logic and withstood the test of time. A synopsis of the final decision can be found here:
http://apps.footballguys.com/04davies_faq.cfm
.
This Court, like most others, recognizes precedent. It looks at the conclusion previously reached and considers that decision in light of the current facts. The Court then determines if the previous conclusion can still be supported by the facts and logic and if that conclusion can also be applied to the current circumstances. (NOTE: Sometimes, over the course of 6 years, something new comes up that was unknown at the time of the original ruling.)
In this instance, the circumstances are identical to the KEENAN McCARDELL incident. Nothing new has come up and many other governing bodies have adopted this Court’s interpretation. As a result, the previous ruling stands.
THE DECISION
The Robert Meachem fumble recovery TD was an OFFENSIVE fumble recovery for a touchdown. It should not be treated as a defensive touchdown for purposes of team defense.
ADDENDUM
We need to recognize that this situation is rare – it happens about once every 6 years. It is not unheard of but it is uncommon. League management systems (like CBSSportsline.com, MyFantasyLeague.com, Fanball.com, etc…
are system driven – they have the ability to interface with the NFL boxscores and provide quick and accurate fantasy scores. However, once in a while, their systems do not recognize oddities like this.
The important thing here is to act in accordance to what your rules state. If all TDs are worth 6 points, then you should have 6 points awarded to Robert Meachem’s score for the week. You may need to add those points manually if your league management system does not do it for you. If your rules state specific TDs that are worth 6 points and offensive fumble recoveries are not one of them, then you should not count this TD.
If your rules permit Team Defense fumble recoveries for a TD as worth 6 points and your league management system awarded 6 points for this score, you may have to reduce that team’s score by 6 points. This is NOT a defensive TD.
GUIDING PRINCIPLE
Your league rules should be the basis for your decision. If your league management system scores a play inconsistent with your league rules, then your Commissioner should make a manual adjustment so that the recorded score is consistent with your league rules.
If you do not like the way your league rules handled this situation, then address it in the offseason – not now. Leagues should not be holding a vote to see how this matter should be resolved.
FINAL WORD
If there is still some question about how your league rules apply to this matter, please e-mail a copy of your rules to us at ChiefInjustice@AskTheCommissioner.com. Your specific request will be handled at no cost as part of your subscription to http://www.FootballGuys.com.
We have varying opinions...so what is the decision?
OK, here are the principles of the FootballGuys discussion:
An offensive team is an offensive team and a defensive team is a defensive team. A change in possession does not change that or by definition, we could never have defensive touchdowns. As soon as the defensive team came into possession of the ball, they would become the offensive team. To think that designation changes at the time of a change of possession simply defies logic the way we play the game.
Even if the change of possession changed offensive and defensive teams…this still would be an offensive TD. The team that started the play on offense had the ball intercepted. At the time of the interception, they went on defense. The player that intercepted the ball subsequently fumbled it and the team that started the play on offense recovered the fumble. With this second turnover, the team that started the play on offense regained their status as the offensive team.
This play really wasn't as complicated as everyone made it out to be. It had a lot of scoring ramifications, but none were terribly complicated if you drilled down deep enough. The core of the matter is whether or not offensive and defensive designations change at the time of a change in possession. But in this case, even that doesn't matter because there were two changes in possession. If they do not change, the team never lost their designation as the offensive team. If they do change, the team lost its designation as the offensive team, but regained it when they regained possession of the second turnover.
In this case, the player that scored the TD should get credit for the TD only if fumble recoveries for TDs or a catchall like ALL TDs is used. The QB that threw the interception should get credit for the interception. The DB that intercepted the ball should get credit for the interception AND the fumble. The player that recovered the fumble should also get credit for a fumble recovery, if that player is eligible to receive such points. If a league interprets the change of possession to mean a change in designation, then the team defense of the team that started the play on offense theoretically should receive credit for a fumble recovery. But not credit for the TD because the act of the fumble recovery changes their designation back to offensive team.
My decision is - it is a offensive TD and Robert Meachem will get the 6 Points. I'll make the adjustment tomorrow (wednesday).